Tuesday, August 9, 2011

The Bronson Winthrop Estate

The Bronson Winthrop estate designed by Delano & Aldrich c. 1910 in Muttontown. Winthrop was an attorney and partner in the firm of Winthrop, Stimson, Putnam & Roberts. Click HERE for more on the Winthrop estate. The house and three acres is currently for sale for $4,200,000, click HERE to see the listing on Daniel Gale Sotheby's. Click HERE to see the Winthrop estate on google earth and HERE on bing.

Listing photos from MLS via Daniel Gale Sotheby's.


The Devoted Classicist said...

It is unfortunate that the two porches (or loggias as noted in the old photos) were lost. But there seems to be a lot of handsome original features otherwise.

Doug Floor Plan said...

My observation: this is still a good looking house but not as good looking as it used to be. Comparing the 1915 photos to the 2011 ones:
• The original view lines are gone in every direction & the real estate has been whittled down to just about the minimum.
• Without its view outward the forecourt is now walled on three sides with the house on the fourth – kind of sterile looking; & the charming arched gate at the entrance is gone.
• If you compare the 1915 & 2011 photos of the front of the house it appears two of the chimneys have been lowered – not that big of a deal but I wonder why.
• The eyelid windows, front & back, appear to have been completely covered over with roofing shingles (you shouldn’t blind an eyelid window).
• I understand switching out to energy efficient windows but the second floor screens & glass reflections make it appear these windows now slide side-to-side – not the best look for this house.
• The rear trellis porches off the living room & dining room are gone, making the back a little more sterile looking; & I personally don’t think placing a swimming pool directly outside the dining room windows is the best place for it in a house like this.
• The main stairs have been straightened out, which is why that small window at the foot of the stairs now looks odd.
• The interiors are not bad; the plasterwork in the living room ceiling is very nice.

It’s a nice house, just not as charming as it once was.

Still, I’m grateful the house still stands & is recognizable compared to its original state (unlike ‘The Oaks’ yesterday).

Turner Pack Rats said...

it's a good thing the house is so big because you won't be going outside - there isn't any. the slogan for Sotheby's ad should be "A property for those who DON'T value their privacy". sigh - another house that should be picked up and set down in a 100 acres. nice interiors esp kitchen except for the island (i know - microwave and dishwasher) and pantry. and it looks like the stables are being made into another house. you'd think with so little lawn, the front yard wouldn't be gravel. DED will have a field day.

security word def - "supprem" - contraction referring to the quality of pizza eaten here

The Down East Dilettante said...

There's actually some taste here. There's still a lot of charm left No cheap pavers with even cheaper cast concrete fountain in forecourt, and though I usually deplore the placement of pools near the house, at least this one is placed on axis architecturally, and is well and simply designed. But, man o man, it is amazing how the developers leave these old places hemmed in. It really isn't that much harder to tweak the placement of the new lots. Truly.

Kellsboro Jack said...

I think its a rather delightful home that has retained more charm then most on the outside. It doesn't convey a hulking mass but rather is more in keeping with being a secluded cottage of very generous proportions.

Thankfully the owners have not tried to "update" the architecture styling. Nor is there an ugly blacktop forecourt area with a basketball hoop smacking any viewing in the face.

TPR - you raise a question I've wondered about: how realistically could someone attempt to relocate such a home from its present site to another with more generous lands? I've seen shows were wood frame homes are moved and barns are relocated too. However larger homes like this with architectural details? I haven't seen it done (over lets say a few miles distance) with portions kept in tact.

Virginia House was shipped from England stone by stone as was the Chateau des Thons. That seems extreme.

Yes is it just an unrealistic concept with a stucco structured home likely with a steel frame at its core?

Just curious.

Anonymous said...

This house looks great in person and still has a decent feel from out back due to the slope of the property. The outbuildings across the street also work well with the house. Unfortunately the house immediately to the north is a true eyesore, built upon a denuded hill and impossible to ignore.


Kellsboro Jack said...

The Sotheby's site has some additional pictures with better quality ...


I like the staircase in the entry hall.

HalfPuddingHalfSauce said...

I updated the HistoricAerial link at the wikimapia tag. Great perspective of his gardens. Added mynas photo link to the fabulous stable complex.

The Devoted Classicist said...

Kellesboro Jack, expertise and money can make a lot of things happen. From my limited experience in house moving, a lot has to do with the accessibilty of the route. Traffic lights can be moved, but, in many cases, overhanging tree limbs cannot, for example. But technically, almost anything can be moved, otherwise.

Marcos said...

I am the current home owner and I found it interesting reading how wide off the mark a number of the comments were. Yes the house sits on but a small portion of its original acrerage. The property owned by Bronson Winthrop at its height encompassed most of the triangle formed by Muttontown Road, Route 106 and Brookville Road.

Yes, the house does not have a front lawn. It never did. The forecourt always was hard against the hillside to the north.

The current gates seen on Woodhollow Court are not the main entrance to the house. The front drive is a right of way through a neighbor's property. That driveway is the original and made the house not visible until you curved to the right at thirty feet before the entrance forecourt.

This was the original intent of the architect and can still be experienced.It was meant not to be pretentious and imposing. The house is more reflective of the English Arts & Crafts ideals than of the Beaux Arts ideals embodied by many North Shore estate houses.

It is notable that all but two of the 11 rooms in the main section of the house face south and are not hemmed in by the lack of a front lawn.

As supported by the original plans in my possesion, the house, including the stair hall, is basically as originally built. The removal of the rear porches is the notable exception.

The roof "eyebrows" have not been shingled over as erroneously stated by one commentor. They are louvered and as such form part of a very ingenious ventilation system which included ceiling ducts and venting flues in the chimneys.

All original ghimneys remain as well as all 16 working fireplaces. However these are not needed as the home boast a very "green" geo-thermal HVAC system recently installed.

We as owner have been very proud of ourselves for not adding the "Mc Mansion" updates so expected and so wrong for these older homes. For example, we have not removed the old Meyer-Sniffen bathroom fixtures in exchange for Kohler jacuzzi tubs and walls of showers.

However, people need to understand that these large old homes were built for a lifestyle that included large staffs. It is those homes which could be "updated and adapted" - even if poorly - which remain. It is precisely because we have not added many of those trendy updates that this home will prove more difficult to sell.

Original windows where rebuilt not replaced. Yes there where aluminum slide storm windows on the house, but they have been replaced. There were only screens originally. The new storm windows rest in the same rabets as the original storms. This made the original "new" shutters functional again.

The pool should not be where it is, but that is where a prior owner placed it trying to appeal to the tatse of their time. The original pool was a distance from the home and has been filled in. I suppose it would have been a challenge to a family without servants to bring them refreshments to have the pool at a removed distance.

Finally, I must state that the house has made for us a warm, elegant and gracious home whcih has made it loved by our family and friends.

Doug Floor Plan said...

Marcos, thank you very much for your response & input. Much of your response addresses my comments & I appreciate you correcting me where I was wrong. You obviously have a superior knowledge by being there as owner vs. me trying to extrapolate what I can from photographs & satellite views. & I think I speak for the majority of us fans of Zach’s OLI web-site that applaud you for what you have done & restrained from doing to preserve this property. At this point I’ll disclose that I have lived in a historic house; but I don’t live in one now & don’t intend to again … you have my sympathy & my admiration.

Anonymous said...

Marcos..If I ever win mega...I'll be knocking on your door. You have a very,very charming and comfortable home. I can totally picture dog's,cat's,children and laughter residing in this house.

Lodi said...

I like this house. We live in a historic home and I love it but there are not very many of us who can tolerate the "inconveniences" of an older home. Not enough plugs, creaky stairs, drafty old windows. You must love it to do it. We have new neighbors who bought the 1864 home across the street and started ripping out everything and installing modern kitchen and bath and fixtures etc. because the wife didn't like the "old stuff". Then why did you buy an old home? Makes me cringe.

Patricia said...

Marcos -- thank you for sharing your insights, and like the others, I appreciate the loving care you have given your home. I, for one, hope you will become part of our discussions and chime in whenever you have something to share.

archibuff said...

Marcos. Glad to hear your devotion to maintaining the integrity of your home. It takes a true old home fanatic to really appreciate the compromises one has to make to live and love an old home like yours. I do hope you find a new owner who is as dedicated to preserving the house as yourself. I have seen examples were a prior homeowner restored original architectural features to a home and painted the exterior appropriately after an extensively researched paint analysis, only to have the next owner remove the features while renovating and repaint the home entirely in white. Maybe you could do your residence a parting favor and apply for listing on the State Historic Register or inquire about landmarking or even protective exterior covenants/easements with the Town of Oyster Bay.