Wednesday, April 11, 2012

'Indian Neck Hall'

'Indian Neck Hall', the Frederick G. Bourne estate designed by Ernest Flagg between 1897-1900 in Oakdale. Click HERE and HERE for more on 'Indian Neck Hall'. A couple of weeks ago the Town of Islip ok'd a plan to develop the property with condos to raise funds to restore the original estate buildings, click HERE for more. Click HERE to see 'Indian Neck Hall' on google earth and HERE on bing.

19 comments:

The Down East Dilettante said...

It's a real shame, and a real dilemna: They develop some of the magnificent open fields, and the building gets saved. They save the open space, the building stays shabby. Neither comes without cost.

HalfPuddingHalfSauce said...

I post today not to comment but to receive any email updates with trash talk from DED about "THE GENIUS".

Doug Floor Plan said...

What's certain is the condos will be built; but as Zach said yesterday: "who knows what they would even consider to qualify as a 'rehabilitation'" [of the F. G. Bourne estate buildings]. & since it's reached the point where condos have to be built on the open land to support this historic house then a portion of the subsequent condominium homeowner fees should be allocated toward the on-going maintenance of 'Indian Neck Hall' -- but I bet the Town of Islip has made no such requirement ... meaning next time there won't be open real estate to develop to save this house.

magnus said...

I do want to agree with a commentator to yesterday's post: Idle Hour and Indian Neck Hall are, to my mind, "neck to neck" (no pun) at the finish line for the least residential/most commercial looking private residence of the era. I will venture that Indian Neck Hall might be the winner. It's almost as if the architect channelled its ultimate fate as a military academy.

archibuff said...

Condos have to be built? You under estimate the power of unreasonable thinking. Yes condos would be the least disruptive thing to do with provisions to restore the mansion with HOA fees. It currently operates as a catering venue but the college wants to unload their responsibility to maintain it. Local residents will fight the condo plan even if the ultimate fate is demolishing the home. Same residents inhabit East Island in Glen Cove where they bemoaned the destruction of the JP Morgan residence but preferred its demolition over condos within the structure.

HPHS is also causing trouble on the blog and I am filing my complaint here!!!

Zach said...

^

Islip has already agreed to the zoning change to permit condos. It appears the time for the residents to fight has passed. And no one has suggested demolishing the home...not the local residents nor the school. Condos won't be built within the mansion but on the property.

Zach said...

From CBS:

"The mansion property is owned by St John’s University, which had the right to level the old buildings and put up 100 homes. The condo deal saves the mansion, but some neighbors think it’s a high price to pay for history.

“I guess we’re in for a lot more traffic,” said one local resident."

The Down East Dilettante said...

It's a shame--a real shame. You can't recreate gilded age mansions, but neither can you recreate open space on the shore.

HPHS, what 'Genius' would I be trash talking today? And what's this trash talking anyway. I'm never anything but sweetness and light.

The Ancient said...

Zach--

FYI:

http://www.washingtonian.com/blogs/capitalcomment/local-news/a-dozen-finalists-have-been-chosen-for-the-redesign-of-the-mall.php

(I have a feeling this is going to end very badly.)

archibuff said...

Also since HPHS brought it up, I would like to point out that to get to the conservatory, breakfast room or entire servants wing one has to walk through the dining room. Yes, can it be? Ernest Flagg? Say it aint so. CPH got grief over that same observation a few posts back. Even to get to the Music Room, Morning Room, etc. you walk straight through the Drawing Room. Now I happen to like a floor plan without miles of excess corridors and this plan with the quirky offset porticos is fine by me, but again, I am just revisiting an earlier post where a "Genius" was criticized for some of the very issues in this home. HPHS made me do it.

The Down East Dilettante said...

Read more carefully. Whassisname wasn't criticized for that (and I wasn't the one who made that observation either--it was Doug *points finger*). I said what is true---that the plan of Winfield is pedestrian, and without the interlocking of space and vista that truly great classical house plans have. It is just a series of stacked boxes. I wasn't even singling out Winfield as the biggest offender in that department. It happened that Winfield was the building under discussion at the time. Duh.

The Down East Dilettante said...

But since the topic is raised---the plan of Indian Neck Hall over all is more interesting and visual than that of Winfield. Having to go through the dining room to a conservatory or breakfast room in either house is hardly a planning crime. More too bad is not having a way for the butler to get from service wing to the front door.

archibuff said...

DED I knew DFP made that observation, I was just bringing up the two homes as having similar issues, one by a great architect and one by a smidge less-great architect, lol, you decide which is which, but one was described as having a weakness for the issue, but not noted here. One also forgets that all these homes had fully functioning basements and auxiliary stairs and access under Winfield Halls main stairs lead directly to the basement spaces as I presume is also true at many other homes like Indian Neck which has a sprawling layout. I dont think the servant staff wore out a path in the carpets in either Dining Room.

Doug Floor Plan said...

I’m almost afraid to speak now.

I think both ‘Indian Neck Hall’ & ‘Winfield Hall’ are icons of excess not excellence & neither has a particularly good floor plan. I agree with Archibuff that too many hallways & corridors waste space & create their own problems but I also believe some rooms, like a formal dining room should not be traffic areas & in a big house servants should be able to get where they need to go without interrupting activities in the major rooms or having to go down & up a flight of stairs in the basement. That’s just me & that’s why I like everything about the Ogden L. Mills house, formerly in Woodbury [by John Russell Pope].

& DED, thanks for putting me on the spot by pointing your crocked finger at me. I’ll wait til the time is right & then I’ll point my finger at you … heh, heh, heh.

The Down East Dilettante said...

Dear Mr. Floorplan,

My boss, Mr. Dilettante, has asked me to advise you that he has left the country for an extended stay. I will be posting in his absence, and should not be mistaken for him, and any resemblance is purely coincidental

Zach said...

The Down Eastern European Dilettante?

HalfPuddingHalfSauce said...

'Pembroke' has something of the air of a German Beer Garden or Spa... Sweetness and light???

Zach said...

Ancient...we definitely agree on the likely outcome. But I can say from having lived very close to the Mall for a few years that it is so very badly in need of major overhaul. I've never even seen the reflecting pool with more than 3 inches of water in it.

The Down East Dilettante said...

Re the Mall:

I see a camel in the making. Where oh where is D.H. Burnham when we need him?