Thursday, September 29, 2011

'Matinecock Point' Aerial

'Matinecock Point', the J.P. Morgan Jr. estate designed by Christopher Grant LaFarge c. 1913 in Glen Cove. Click HERE and HERE for more on 'Matinecock Point'.

28 comments:

magnus said...

Timing is everything, as they say, and the fate of the Matinecock Point is a testament to that old adage: The property was developed right after the Second World War with tiny, banal ranch style houses built "Cheeck by Jowl" on some of the prettiest and most dramatically situated property on Long Island. Where were zoning laws when they were needed most?

Anonymous said...

How DARE the "middle class" have that land!!!!

Anonymous said...

It's not the middle class as much as it seems EVERYONE lost any sense of style or taste after WWII. Even though I don't even think I fit the middle class range, I still felt it a mistake turning Long Island into a weekend get-away destination...it should have been left to the rich and the farmers. Damn Grumman and Moses!!!

The Down East Dilettante said...

Actually, Magnus's and Anonymous's comments point up a giant contrast between this recession/depression, and the last one. From the 1930's to the 1960's, many of the big estates up and down the eastern seaboard were sold for a fraction of cost, often for middle class development or institutional use. When the recent gilded age went into full swing, values rose vertiginously, and a surprising number of the houses converted to school or office or convent went back into private ownership. And now, as markets crash, we see virtually none of these selling for fractional value (Seaview Terrace in Newport, mentioned by HPHS in yesterday's comments, sold for $8000 in 1949, for example). Up here, after depression and WWII, any property up here could be purchased for 35k and under. In this recession, an estate at Northeast Harbor just sold for 12,500,000, and when an estate on LI is demolished now (Land's End), unlike Matinecock Point, it doesn't become a crowded middle class subdivision, but rather a crowded McMansion subdivision. See the difference?

It's an interesting footnote to the drastic redistribution of wealth, no?

Anonymous said...

Even a bigger contrast is the fact that today's rich simply have no taste!! Maybe the wealthy of the past didn't either...but they had their Olmsted's, Biddle-Shipman's, Steele's, and their Hunt's, McKim, Meade's and White's, Hastings,Carrere's, Popes and Trumbauers.

Doug Floor Plan said...

DED, I understand your point but my question for you & anyone else is: Is there a greater sense of loss when a great estate is replaced with small houses instead of big ones?

For me the answer is no; & I think Magnus’s comment was aimed more at the aesthetic than the economic. I would rather see a community of attractive, small houses than a community of tasteless piles on undersized lots. Either way the great estate is gone.

I'm glad Mangus made his comment because it confirmed my opinion that 'Matinecock Point' was one of the choicest locations to be had. I hope the people who live there now enjoy the benefit of it.

The Down East Dilettante said...

My point wasn't about the aesthetics, it was about trends and economics.

But, that said, architectural integrity and my own faintly Bolshevik tendencies aside, it is the loss of open space, and poor layout and planning that causes me the most regret about the estates and subdivision.

Anonymous said...

That's what I meant by Long Island should have been left to the rich and the farmers.It's that loss of open space, all the rivers and ponds that have been filled in for development, the loss of the plains for poorly built communities and strip malls.

The Ancient said...

It's possible to regret the consequences of Moses's takings and still remember that people have to live somewhere.*

Besides, imagine how much worse it might have been:

http://www.nycroads.com/crossings/unbuilt/

Especially this part:

http://www.nycroads.com/crossings/LI-sound-2/
______________
* Dilettante is a bit of Bolshie, and I am more than a little reactionary, but neither one of us would wish the current population of Long Island on New Jersey.

Anonymous said...

Not to change the subject, but has there ever been a post here on the estate of Junius Spencer Morgan? I read an article about it in the Times many years ago, and it looked like an interesting place. I think it went by the name "Salutations," or something like that. Not even sure it still exists, though.

The Ancient said...

"All the News That's Fit to Print -- And More!"

Zach said...

Anon...you won't find 'Salutations' on here because I don't have any pictures of it...but The Location Company does:

http://thelocationcompanyny.com/mansions/9045-mgw.htm

The Down East Dilettante said...

Ah, Salutations! Speaking of superb locations! One of my favorite Long Island houses of the era. The only reason to watch the otherwise pointless Harrison Ford remake of 'Sabrina' (one should not tamper with perfection, and the first, Billy Wilder, version was just that) is that Salutations stars as the Larrabee estate. One can also find pictures at the Location Company website, as well as links to the other houses on the estate: http://www.thelocationcompanyny.com/mansions/9045-mgw.htm

The Down East Dilettante said...

Ah, Salutations! Speaking of superb locations! One of my favorite Long Island houses of the era. The only reason to watch the otherwise pointless Harrison Ford remake of 'Sabrina' (one should not tamper with perfection, and the first, Billy Wilder, version was just that) is that Salutations stars as the Larrabee estate. One can also find pictures at the Location Company website, as well as links to the other houses on the estate: http://www.thelocationcompanyny.com/mansions/9045-mgw.htm

HalfPuddingHalfSauce said...

I can't possibly convey all the angles here. As far as the loss of this estate or any other my thoughts generally go to the craftsmanship and the aesthetics that resulted.

If everything in this world were fair and even... I could see "The Rich" having special breaks and incentives to preserve their properties as long as they followed the rules. "Bogheid" was acquired by the City of Glen Cove in the early 1950's with the stipulation that Pryibil could occupy the house until her death{1969}. The plan forward was to convert home into the clubhouse for the municipal golf course. For what ever reason that never happened and Carey bought the place.

I've never heard that movie Sabrina was partly shot at Bogheid??? Link to Palm Beach Post at the wikimapia site tells the story.

From the MyNas property card - SubBsmt - Boiler Rm & machinery Bsmt - pantry, stairhall & grill rm{organ or barbecue?} Oak floors and trim, Ping-Pong rm, billard and bowling alley. Oak fls and ornate cornice work in liv/dining rm. parquet floors and Butternut paneling in the library. 2nd fl - all very good hardwood floors and enamel trim. 3rd flr - studio, guest and servants room. Three Otis elevators. Floors are reinforced concrete with 4inch space under 1st, 2nd 3rd floors.

Magnus - your photos of Bogheid?


http://wikimapia.org/#lat=40.8931427&lon=-73.6399734&z=17&l=0&m=b&v=1&show=/2849273/Salutations

Self serving article from 1993 -

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/04/04/nyregion/l-restrictions-on-glen-cove-estate-246293.html

I was able to request this from my local library -


http://www.amazon.com/Collection-Louise-Morgan-Salutation-Island/dp/B000PN01QA/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1317337314&sr=1-1

Free read -


http://books.google.com/books?id=_bi8OLNwAMgC&pg=PA67&dq=salutations+glen+cove,ny&hl=en&ei=UPKETvO_LsLAgQfLrcQs&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

Anonymous said...

How recent are the Location Companies pictures of Salutations ? And where is this estate located....Glen Cove?

The Down East Dilettante said...

Half&Half, you've got my head spinning. One imagines that maybe the Bogheid tennis court is the one in Sabrina?

That aside, in the Glen Cove book that you link to is this photograph--http://books.google.com/books?id=_bi8OLNwAMgC&lpg=PA67&dq=salutations%20glen%20cove%2Cny&pg=PA78#v=onepage&q&f=false --- captioned as Killenworth, but to my eye it appears to actually be the Aldred estate?

Zach said...

DED...that is indeed Ormston...similar angle can be seen here: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_OlaVeajrP30/TOEpW-pZCoI/AAAAAAAAG5c/JoIFFVGwxZM/s1600/Ormston.jpg

'Salutations' is here: http://wikimapia.org/#lat=40.8931914&lon=-73.6401129&z=17&l=0&m=b

Anonymous said...

DED,

The indoor tennis court was the one on the Dodge Sloane estate behind St. John's of Lattingtown (near Old Tappan and Overlook intersection. The gates they drove through were at the west entrance of the Aldred estate (Lattingtown). A greenhouse shown was at Planting Fields and the village scene with Ferrari was in beautiful downtown Low Cost Valley. They made good use of the surrounding countryside.

OFLI

Anonymous said...

I was the one who asked about Salutations. Thank you, Zach and everyone else, for providing all these links. I just spent twenty minutes drooling over those pics on the Location Company's site. What a house and what a view! I think I'm in love.

Anonymous said...

Me too - in absolutely amazing condition!

Anonymous said...

The Location Company site can be addicting!

HalfPuddingHalfSauce said...

Thanks Old Former Long Islander for the rundown. I can't tell you how many times I paused the movie trying to locate gate location. My thoughts after looking at it using Google Street View - that's it!

http://wikimapia.org/#lat=40.8885684&lon=-73.6099005&z=15&l=0&m=b&show=/4122199/Brookmeade-Tennis-Complex

http://wikimapia.org/#lat=40.8937915&lon=-73.6151791&z=16&l=0&m=b&show=/4228549/Ormston-House-West-Gate

http://wikimapia.org/#lat=40.8623246&lon=-73.5549581&z=17&l=0&m=b&show=/8351520/Main-Greenhouse-Hibiscus-House

Besides the movie tidbit I thought the article mentioning the auction and Dina Merrill interesting. Timely with the recent death of her former husband Cliff Robertson.

HalfPuddingHalfSauce said...

In late summer Morgan sailed from Glen Cove on Corsair to his castle Wall Hall in England. Staying for three months each year he regularly entertained the Royal family -
http://wikimapia.org/#lat=51.6827173&lon=-0.3567231&z=18&l=0&m=b&show=/21701746/Wall-Hall

http://www.liboatingworld.com/archive/2010/10/LIBW/LIBW_30.pdf

HalfPuddingHalfSauce said...

If I'm reading the property card right this was the boathouse from Morgans' esate -
http://wikimapia.org/#lat=40.8977877&lon=-73.6333564&z=19&l=0&m=b&show=/21714322/Matinecock-Point-Boathouse

For sale -

http://www.liclassichomes.com/listing-Glen-Cove-417-109.html

HalfPuddingHalfSauce said...

http://wikimapia.org/#lat=40.8969848&lon=-73.6302611&z=19&l=0&m=b&show=/21714504/Superintendents-House-from-Matinecock-Point

HalfPuddingHalfSauce said...

http://wikimapia.org/#lat=40.8981222&lon=-73.6296254&z=18&l=0&m=b&show=/21715593/Matinecock-Point-Dairymans-Cottage

http://wikimapia.org/#lat=40.8981222&lon=-73.6296254&z=18&l=0&m=b&show=/21715827/Matinecock-Point-Gardeners-Cottage

Anonymous said...

In response to Doug Floorplans message on 9/29/11: I lived there in the late 70's-mid 90's. I will never appreciate anything more in my life than the shear joy I felt growing up there. That was before people knocked down the original houses and built those oversized eys-sores. In the early days, only ranches were allowed on the waterside of the streets so the houses across the street could enjoy waterviews from the second story. There was also a real sense of community during those earlier days. The mansion still stood and had a small church attached to it. I remember many a Christmas Eve midnight mass or sunrise Easter Sunday there. The nuns would allow you to walk around the mansion and serve cookies and milk. On summer nights, many of the Islands residents would gather on the west-facing side of the mansion's lawn and watch the sunset. As kids, we would play hide and seek along the trails and stone paths that still remained and climb on the mansion roof. Although a development had sprung up, the mansion was still intact and the center of all Island activities.I was 15 when the wrecking ball came and my friends and I stood there and cried. So was it appreciated? More than I would ever be able to explain. Those memories will be with me until the day i die.