Wednesday, December 7, 2011

The Castle Goulds That Never Were

Above and below, the Augustus Allen design for the Howard Gould estate c. 1903 in Sands Point. Allen was later replaced with Abner Haydel who produced plans for Gould c. 1904 seen below the Allen floor plan. The Goulds finally settled on Hunt & Hunt to design the residence c. 1909 which can be seen HERE (which was also the year the couple separated).



Images from Architecture, 1904.

15 comments:

Parnassus said...

No wonder these weren't built--the designs look thirty years out of date by 1903. Th one they did build is reminiscent of the Potter Palmer house (the residence) in Chicago.
--Road to Parnassus

The Down East Dilettante said...

Wow, that was fast, Zach :-)

Anonymous said...

This first looks similar to Biltmore.

archibuff said...

Sometimes it is best to wait awhile and think things through. I have to admit, I kinda like the grand floor plan of the Allen House. That home was meant for showing off, I mean entertaining. I am very glad the Haydel plans neve left the drawing board. That home is excessively bloated and oppresive and ominous, very similar to a dark dank medieval castle it tried to replicate. No wonder the existing stables are confused for this early version of Castlegould, the similarities are evident but both would make terrible 20th century homes. I think Gould ended up quite happy in the final Hunt version, it was smaller and more liveable and he was divorecd from his horror of a first wife.

Glen said...

The evolution of the three designs is really fascinating. I retract any earlier comments connecting the same plan/design for the house and stable. But that leaves the question, who designed the stable? According to the Sands Point Preserve website (known to have inaccuracies and I'm spreading rumors again)Haydel was the first architect and was dismissed and replaced by Allen. It credits Allen with the design of the stable, but that is the reverse of Zach and DED's research. The stable more closely resembles Haydel's design for the house and Kilkenny and I believe it was mentioned yesterday that Haydel did the site plan and stable. Is that correct? The Allen floor plan is fascinating. I can't decipher the room names, but how would one ever utilize all those large public spaces? Given the variation of design in the three proposals it seems plausible that husband and wife could not agree on a style. That alone could have driven Haydel insane.

The Devoted Classicist said...

While I know this will not be a popular comment, I feel compelled to say that I find the Haydel design to be the most architecturally interesting of the three in terms of the exterior elevations presented.

archibuff said...

Ughh, DED must have been that kid in class who reminded the teacher on a Friday afternoon that she forgot to assign homework.......Haydels Castlegould elevations as shown are interesting granted, but appropriate for a modern waterfront home circa 1904? One would think you needed to dress in armour and mount a horse if you lived in that towering fortress and called it home. I think it is just too literal a design/copy of the original. I am just being argumentative I guess, but to further frustrate all, the Dowling Library website, a major University on Long Island by the way, has the Gould stables designed by Augustus Allen in 1902 as a replica of Kilkenny castle and Hempstead House itself designed by Abner Haydel circa 1901 for the Goulds. LOL. Nice to get credit for a home you didnt design? So one wonders why so many are misinformed these days.

archibuff said...

Off topic: I also have to say that just today I took a look at DED's own blog and I must say it seems to be very interesting and I will be back there often to check into the archives on the long lost architectural wonders featured there. (Am I allowed to plug another blog?)

Zach said...

For someone like DED...permission to plug another blog granted.

The Down East Dilettante said...

Glen, it is not 100% clear to me if Haydel's or Allen's design for the house came first, but it appears that it was Haydel. However, in all sources, the layout of the property and the design of the stable are firmly given to Allen, 1902-04. As a matter of interest, Haydel's design was published in 'Architecture' in May 1904, and Allen's was published 'Architecture' in November 1904. (which does not necessarily mean that is the order in which they were designed.

Archi, I not only WASN'T the kid who reminded the teacher to assign homework on Friday, I was the kid whose dog ate the homework every Sunday evening. And I didn't even have a dog.

And of course, having a house that looked as if it needed armour was exactly what the Goulds had in mind.

And Devoted, I tend to agree that the Haydel design is the most picturesque. I'd always wondered why Haydel & Shepard were not better known----they certainly understood the scenic qualities of buildings--- and yesterday's revelations answered that question: Haydel was nuts.

As a matter of interest, here's a link to Haydel's 'Grey Craig', designed by Haydel.

http://books.google.com/books?id=zTlOAAAAYAAJ&dq=grey%20craig%20newport&pg=PA86#v=onepage&q=grey%20craig%20newport&f=false

After it burned, it was replaced by the sublime new 'Grey Craig' by Albro & Lindberg---one of their biggest and most interesting estates---most recently owned by Nicholas Cage, who apparently likes purple in decor--a lot.

http://www.windigodesign.com/Residential/GrayCraig.html

PS. Whenever a design website says that restoration work included adding a 'Tuscan' style kitchen, you know the decor is gonna suck big time.

Doug Floor Plan said...

I just took a look at an enlarged floor plan for the unbuilt Augustus N. Allen design (Zach, it's in your e-mail). Showing off doesn't begin to describe this proposed house; the ground floor has not one small, intimate room; & I also can't find a bathroom but I'm sure there were some tucked away somewhere. This place was going to have a grand hall AND a ballroom; a big drawing room AND a large salon. If Gould had built this I bet Daniel Guggenheim would have never bought it; & that probably would have doomed this house & the proposed Kilkenny Castle version if that had been built.

I'm reminded what Henry James said about those white elephants in Newport: "... while their averted owners, roused from a witless dream, wonder what in the world is to be done with them."

The Down East Dilettante said...

PS Archi, re the Dowling website: Although even I am NOT ALWAYS right ( YUP, you heard it here, treasure the moment), I like facts to be accurate, and strive for that goal constantly. I am amazed at how quickly and easily misinformation gets spread nowadays, and how many people only half get it----to see this on Dowling's website, so easily provably wrong just causes dismay at the future of education. There used to be this thing called fact checking. Whenever I've been interviewed for something national, a fact checker from the publication has always called me, and gone over every word of every sentence. That sensibility seems to be gone.

The Down East Dilettante said...

And for those who can stand even more, I find that Gould was developing a private nine hold course on the property as early as 1901, even before the stables. The course was laid out so that every hole in play would be visible from the as yet unbuilt house.

AND, leaving no stone unturned for his pleasure, he had five acres underwater under cultivation to raise clams and oysters for his own pleasure and consumption, and even went to court to protect his under water rights.

This is the sort of stuff that shows that we can only imagine the scale on which life was lived by the 1% of the era.

Kyle Peterson said...

I really like the Allen design. That would have been a great house see in person. However I think the second design holds true to the authenticity of a true castle. The thing that bothers me about Hempstead House is the similar layout of the floor plan to that of Biltmore with the centered winter garden.

Residential Design said...

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